Tuesday August three eighteenth's two thousand and fifteen with your please rise
for the pledge to fly. I pledge allegiance to the.
United States. To the only. One way.
And it is the way you. Think you. Have
a roll call place. Here Gary Richardson present
your hair your. Hair buckler your. Present.
Now and I will take
a motion to approve the agenda. So move mood by Commissioner Murad is there
a second second second by Commissioner proposition
a discussion on the agenda. Here or not it will take a roll call or
a yes buckler Yes Smith Yes yes yes
RICHARDSON Yes Morel yes or no yes now eight and now I will take
a motion to approve the minutes of the July the twenty eighth's two thousand and
fifteen. Minutes. So moved like Mr Richardson is there
a second second second like Mr Sedo Is there any discussion on the minutes.
Hearing none we'll take
a roll call vote morale Yes yes Smith Yes your AD
Yes yes RICHARDSON Yes or yes or no yes.
Any communications you got many communications can be any capacity da meeting
minutes the latest Planning Commission roster I realize it's been
a while so I might want to bring. That article. Regarding diversity that was
forwarded to me from R.G.P.
Deputy director from the M M L. An article from council member Baker.
Bicycle safety and designing. Infrastructure to be safe for bicycles and the.
The report on the rope enough. For been design project
and then you have the streets rendering term Woodward You'll recall that when you
were asked to choose between option A and Option B. You went with C. . Three D.
Not unanimously but that's what that's what the majority of you of the council kind
of felt the same way they started at the same lukewarm feeling in light of that we
had
a conference call with all of the various staff planners from the various communities
in fact it all chatting about bicycles and sidewalks and service drives and
maintenance. And there were some intense words on occasion but in the end we did
find that there was an agreement that we thought that. Having
a wider sidewalk was better than not and yet and that having the bicycles
away from the traffic was
a good thing as well there was some discussion on whether it was better to have the
bicycles at the same grade as the car. Which is why if you look at the rendering
you can't really tell whether that's a curb or
a stripe or what there was discussion about whether it was better to have it.
Be essentially curb separated but at street grade there were maintenance issues
with that which we all had to discussed and we all talked about
a conference call. But then there was also discussion about if you kept
a sidewalk grade where they're going to be pedestrian by school collisions there
were discussion. It's about having to
a bicycle traffic rather than one way and what we thought how we thought people
would behave motorists whether they would know to look both ways whether bicycle
bicyclists would actually cross the street to go north or south or whether they'd
just go on their merry way. But in the end at this point it was agreed that the
bicycles can be between the car and the sidewalk and perhaps the Sidewalk Ends up
just being wider. That's what. Or we end up with it at a curb and we end up with
a bunch of losing our budget. Time. But at this point it's all
still talk talk it's all still talk there's no money for it. All right at this
point all interchange citizens comments and citizen who is right to address
surprising commission on any topic not on our agenda the CD may you step up to the
micro from state your name and city of residence and the floor I will remind says
and so I have an opportunity to participate in discussions as we move through maybe
the city. Saying no says those rushing to the microphone I
guess we'll move right on in the you order of business expenses item number one is
a public hearing matter of conducting
a public hearing or in the adoption of the residential future land use planning
Amendment. Notice was published in The Daily Tribune notices were also sent
a neighboring communities underlying agencies utilities in the county on August
fourth Oakland County you have
a copy of their report found that the proposed master plan amendment was not
inconsistent with the surrounding communities. So that's
a good thing that's what they essentially said yes. Well we sort of thought that
would really go with this. It's a good plan it's
a very good plan I think it is we did it has. Been
a great job monitor and getting it together.
So I guess the first order of business is sick enough to probably carrying on it.
So I will open. The public hearing Do we want to talk
a little bit about what Senator do is really just go for it that way. So the intent
of the master plan amendment that's before the Planning Commission tonight for
consideration. Was really came out of the two
thousand and seven master the larger master plan that was adopted and there was.
A thought at that point in time that the city of Berkeley didn't have any. Didn't
have any townhouse developments in the city and there had been
a lot of interest in having that and so the Planning Commission since this time has
been trying to find a spot to put them where would be
a good location for. Four townhouses what should we zone to.
Residential attatched single family. Problem with rezoning something is that
if you allow. It you would need to change the land use is there or there
are into nonconforming uses and that causes problems with insurance and loans and
all of that and so there really was
a thought well we we want to allow for it but we want to continue to allow the uses
that are there. So the greenfield district which was adopted. The zoning map
changes were made and. Were adopted sometime ago allows for
townhouses. There is
a zone on twelve mile that is. In the tiny map and I don't have it memorized from
during field to about Tyler and it actually allows for townhouses on twelve mile
and again the that development hasn't happened but it is available if developers
and the city. The city is willing to entertain the idea of town houses or
apartments being twelve mile at that location just west of the downtown. So again
we're still looking at wanting to have this important land use in the city and but
we want to speak in textual And so this Plan Commission is looking at well let's
allow for infill development at certain locations provided that is can tax jewel in
the city planning commission has been working on
a. Four base code which would allow for duplexes along with single family
with along with townhouses along. With apartments and certain areas provided that
they fit into the context have the appropriate parking setbacks that they look
a certain way. And again and this master plan amendment looks at the population
trends we peaked in one nine hundred sixty family sizes going down and.
And we're built out we can't we're not going to start an exciting Royal Oak or
Huntington woods to gain population like they do out west where they just the
cities keep getting bigger and bigger so this is
a way to continue to make Berkeley walkable and to allow for people to
their children to buy into the community after they've grown and be able to afford
living here as well as people that want to they don't want to deal with the
maintenance of
a single family home but they want to continue to live in Berkeley and that's
really what this is looking at allowing for and the master plan looks at these
population trends and how it's important that we. Provide for housing diversity in
the city. With that that's very very good thank you from him
thank you and so with that. We'll entertain anyone who cares to address the
Planning Commission regarding this.
Good evening my name's John De Long live in Oxford and west for market and I think
I read the master plan and. The correct document.
A long time ago when I was much younger I remember living in apartments and
although I was always
a good tenant. I remember that apartments with young folks could be very loud and.
Have
a lot of excitement. And what I'm concerned about is in here it says
that apartments should be considered. Within
a quarter mile of the transit stops along Woodward Avenue. I'm just concerned about
all of a sudden having
a an apartment near my property an apartment for older folks which I might want to
move into something I can understand but for example we have
a beautiful house down the street where of the owner is going to be leaving soon
and it's a large lot and
a double lot next to it and my going to wake up someday to find out that that's
been rezoned in being torn down and
a townhouses are going to be built or an apartment and how will that affect you
know the community that I'm. I moved to because it is
a bedroom residential community and I like it that way if I wanted to live in my
local I would have stayed right look so that's all I want to say thank you. Other
comments.
Here in no other comments. I guess across
a public airing. So
I guess we move on item two we do right item number two is resolution R one fifteen
matter of adopting the residential feature land use Amendment. What is the
desire of the Planning Commission. Mr Chairman
Mr Martin Smith. Are we recommending this to. You know you adopt we have made it
has to move that we adopt resolution Ira one fifteen you're making
a motion by making a motion is there
a second for the resolution second by Commissioner Mark or is there any discussion
on the motion. Hearing now and I guess I'll take
a roll call vote. Yes Morel Yes you're at YES
YES. Yes RICHARDSON Yes Smith Yes. Yes.
OK. Item number three I don't know if it's really is discussion regarding street
are pursuant to multi modal transportation plans recommendation so this is
a fun one and you can help me on this or you can say forget it. I kind of went
through in my report my history of this. Liking. Everyday
objects painted whimsically and whether it's
a dumpster or whether he saw fire hydrants in Ann Arbor. And again as I said I
had talked about the fire hydrants and our D.P.W.
Director former director Bruce to run with just get out of here kid he was just
tired he just so soon. You are tired. There are actual or I hey what do you think
about he gave me the pads about
a paint them so that they know what the size of the pipe or the. Light you know
there's certain things about saving lives they need to know what color coded that
way I get that that's important so. Then we moved on to utility
boxes and first roams thought that was just painted those that time
did not have an issue with it I have since written to a T.N.T.
Haven't heard back. I've looked into it
a little bit gave you lotsa copies of this sort of thing I don't know if you like
just plain ones that you think this looks trashy or you think it looks neat. I've
kind of looked at to the point where I need somebody to love that other somebody to
say yeah that's
a good thing go for it or no that's not what we want. OK brainy nation
well what you're going to go first. I remember as
a child. When. United States was going through the bicentennial and I wasn't there
and I had big moment I painted all the character I remember there were carried out
so you know and I lived in the house where it was one was right out in front of us
and they came by and painted him OK and that was kind of cool so I think it's
a good idea you know I like the idea maybe turn it into like an art project or
something. You know. I have to involve the community in some way.
Down here. Richardson. Just dance and it was
contemplated to be. The judge I haven't gotten I haven't really even
thought about that I kind of you know I get that there could be an issue with that
I think. If. You all as sort of representative
think yeah this could be an interesting thing I'll continue on to hire folks and it
won't just be me researching it but certainly we would want to make sure it wasn't
. In my Clemence where I worked for many years they painted the fire hydrant.
Variety designs on the fire hydrants similar to the pictures that provided us and.
That was the city managers idea I caution that the same manager of Malcolm X.
Was fired by
a couple months. After the fire hydrant A F ever the fires are faded to me because
there was some. Controversy connected with that I'm I'm not saying that what
happened here in Berkeley but. Certainly want to get community buy and if you're
going to do it right. I thought bit yes. Right or that's where.
They kind of grew on you I mean it will look like traditional fire hydrants first
kind of look at it and say well that's
a little strange but they grow on you. Kind of seem like little friends little
one cartoon characters seven to one so I had I'd say go ahead.
And the comments. Come in. Like you know I appreciate
your. Boldness and awareness and ability to bring
this to the community as an option I think is. Something that would enhance the
community whether it be on fire hydrants or in the Tila he boxes or what not to
need fully in support of the Tila he boxes there's numerous throughout our
communities that. Could be in here stores and I think that would be great has been
. There and that's just your history right
I think is a I think it's a great idea I do think that. I think it's
a good opportunity. That being said I think you need to be I think there needs to
be some careful thought into possible ways that these requirements could be.
Unfortunately applied. And when I say that I can't say it that I can't say that I
can think of you know for example you do say in here you are sort of asked to paint
the utility much. And paint is a verb. And it's also
a now. But the act of painting could involve more things than paint and if the
intent is to paint the boxes with paint you come we need to say that.
And then and again if. Somebody wants to paint you're concerned about feathers or
Well I'm concerned I'm concerned about an unfortunate outcome that follows all of
the rules and yet nobody likes OK And so that's really my only concern the other
thing that they're going to think about is what happens if they get vandalized do
they do you just painted beige again and then bring in the next artist sure. Or do
you bring the old artist back to fix and I having having something in place
regarding this I think is is pretty important because it is the kind of thing they
can come back to haunt you if somebody really really likes
a particular box in the way it was and then it gets damaged or Manalive or replaced
because it's we need a new box and then all of
a sudden becomes this big. Right. And then that there thing would be and then now
that I'm expecting there's going to be I think we're going to have some. Some
interest in this but you know is there
a sunset on these designs and these designs going to last are you know let's you
know is is this Are we going to keep it up for five years and painted over
definitely you know I I I know that certain ones had
a sense that and certainly it said that if. I can live with it that.
Artwork may be removed or destroyed at any time without notification of the artist
to accommodate utility backs replacement so we do say that it has to go it has to
go and well and then see but then you know maybe just eliminate the utility bought
a place to park and that lets you off the hook because if you can take it I mean I
think the city because it's city property and ultimately the city graininess Rishon
of the city has
a right to you know. There's this big thing going on about murals on the sides of
buildings and how before they're painted over removed or obscured the you have the
artist has to be notified ninety days in advance which I'm assuming is to allow him
to whip up public outrage and maybe change an outcome but. So what defines.
That public mural nature of this and and if and you know what
maybe you do you know find the going to get ninety days and then it gets replaced
but unless it's an emergency but I think you need to cover OK those bases because
it is it's one of those things that I could see people like you know I really like
the box that was here and you went and did this and I mean it's just there I hate
to say it but as a guy who's spent
a lot of time reading codes you know trying to figure out what they really mean.
That's all I have either coming. From here as you know also in your
guidelines I think you have to consider obscenity and things like that. And I and I
will have the city attorney and he gets
a packet that. Obviously he have to weigh and I don't. Care to Richard
and to me these are certainly legitimate concerns but they can be addressed by two
two steps one having. Having the agreement the artist to sign all rights to the
city. And to. Making the. Final
decision on whether they are successful or not remain with the city just to have
the artists submit
a drawing ahead of time on this part of the you know sort of guidelines. For his I
mean that way I think they want to press the. Turn that. Other comments.
I know I like it I've always been in favor of bringing some are into the city I
think it's great. And I had the idea i years back to do something twelve mile
over the fence and the cemetery but then I got sick and didn't follow through so.
It's still
a good idea to do this and I'm young enough to remember this the
Centennial the bicentennial. Painting. I had your
insight believe I managed to pull off something to do that once upon
a time. Other comics. Well OK Well I
haven't had my say I haven't written like you were saying Well Ms Hanson I think I
am sitting on the fence on this one OK And the reason I guess I'm sitting on the
Found says. He talk about art.
And what's art to one person is not are to another person and there's people who
sit on the fence I don't know what it is or why it's there and I'm sure it's OK I
guess but I guess I'm sitting on the fence on this one I.
Would read every action Association just recently took on the project down in
Highland Park they build
a new pump house. And you know it just sat there the pump house sat there in the
background and there was Bush bushes and trees around it and it sort of sat out in
the open as
a concrete structure and it didn't look that bad but by gosh now you drive by it
and I think it's the Guardian's looking thing I've ever seen in the in creation and
some people think it's great art and here this is where. I don't believe it's great
art but I'm one person and that's the issue I have with this whole idea I think the
fire hydrants I don't have as much problem with the fire hydrants but when I start
painting utility boxes and what have you in the community they're sort of set there
in a beige area they're Beijing color and what have you and and some There's
a few locations in Berkeley where people have actually landscaped around the darn
things and it doesn't look too bad. So I'm just a man he's E.
About this I like the fire hydrant idea so happy about utility boxes and how far
you go with that but I don't I look at our. What I think is great are
some miles of work effort. And. Especially when you get in the contemporary
air
a lot of people go who what is that and. How you make the how you make the
decision and what you're going to do and how you're going to do it I guess it's
still up in the air for me I'm not against it yet and I'm sort of on the fence with
that Mr Chairman. You bring up an interesting highlight of this.
If I am a resident with
a fire hydrant out in front of my house. I have to look at whatever the city
approves That's right and you know it's funny just two days ago the city
removed
a street tree on our lot. No warning nothing my wife came home and said Eric you
know their tree that would lean out into the street it's gone. And while I
perfectly understand that that tree was leaning out into the street and it was
going to fall and it probably should have been removed the fact that and it was on
city property the city can do what they want you know somebody made
a decision and now it's gone. And I didn't expect to have any say now I might have
like a little notice for something you know just because you know I jam
a lot around
a tree and yet somehow it's not really mine. And when I think about how one day you
could you know walk outside saying hello to your red fire hydrant and then you come
back and it's Sponge Bob Square Pants. That I think that yeah that that
potentially could be
a problem and I'm not sure how to resolve it but I could see somebody being
significantly not happy with the you know Vincent Van Gogh
a starry night on the side it was eighty bucks if he doesn't happen to be of
incidental fan you know I am and that would be OK with me but I do think that there
are some issues with. Mr Chair Yes but.
I appreciate the comments. But now you've just gone down
a slippery slope. Because. What happens if your neighbor paints
a house colleague you don't like what happens if they landscape in
a way don't like where this talking about
a fairly contained process that the city can you know maybe even more near take
something that is are rather hideous and if true so I think even with the
landscaping those boxes I would be so angry when it happened. And I'd have no say
in eighteen thousand and they're much bigger have some character to it that at that
point. Maybe you could have
a simple yes or no for the person who lived in front of it that they want to paint
it or not and once they say yes it goes through the process if they say no it stays
standard but I think it's totally slippery slope if you like while like that one
might like this because then you get into low should I be able to tell you how to
paint your house. Well furniture your front I can I can say that I have I mean I
have neighbors who painted and. I don't necessarily like what they've done
but it's something they have the. The it's their house they can do what they want
with it and if they're happy with it fine I have
a look with them but yeah and I do think there is
a difference between personal property rights and the public right of way. No
question in my mind that if a person there's not much I can do if
a person wants to put three hundred of those three dollars solar lights all their
driveway and sidewalk and you know the planes coming in
a reference you know that's all they can do that. But I do think that there is
a we hold our sweet hold the city to
a higher standard I have some expectation from the city that that they will play
fair and square with the residents and was very you know. Again in
my case I knew the tree had to go. But it was
a total surprise that it was gone. And and I think this could be
a total surprise I must say there's
a way around it well and I will say this just as we can keep talking about it but
when I had spoken to the city manager years ago about that fire hydrant idea and
she said. I mean the business district but I don't know if I'm want to get into
that in the residential district so I think there's that there's already that line
of it and that means going around debts and that it is different than
a business property. Here and I think because it's open to
anybody submitting a design
a homeowner can you know if you have that something right next to your house so you
can submit
a design that you want and take you take it on yourself. And sell the house and
move away and somebody else comes along they don't like it they can cement another
design or replace it right. There's nothing to prevent this from you know it's just
like you can now go and plant
a new tree in that area if you it's no use now because you are trying to get your
ego out of that but you can you can you can ask the city to put I want to see right
through my program right out of the city for
a gram as put in eight trees on my mind that they won't let you plant over an old
tree that's the only OK yeah thirty year after year I believe in yeah right certain
amount we lost our old tree that was one of something that you could know and
there's also nothing to prevent from the house next door and you'll be sold to
a builder pared down and he's building one of these big foots out. I agree I think
so you know we do you know that gets into the whole argument of you know do we owe
anything to our neighbors right as you know as residents of our homes and my is it
total property rights I can do whatever I want within the laws of the city and to
heck with you or do I you know I've I argue and I argue that we do or something
similar but again I look at this is as being I think that if you if you are going
to limit it to. The business districts and things I think it's
a great idea and I continue supported I just think that again when you have
a residential when you're residential situation and you know if the home or wanted
to go out there and do it you know I might still have
a problem because again this is the public right away we're talking about here and
you know if I didn't happen to like my my trees in the public right away I can't
just walk up and down you know it was there to see these trees and they remind me
of that. But but I have seen people take the grass out and put. Down
cover some like that so they don't have you having your lawyer I surrounded them in
the trunk of a true obviously there's
a line that we have drawn somewhere right so and I'm just asking that we've got to
tell them we had
a look closely at where that line goes and you know you said you like mango other
people might not like agree so you know everybody has their I thought about doing
one on my garage door you couldn't and I thought my residents would kill me and my
my my neighborhood killing. You know get over it bask what what
great master work of art you were going to put on your garage floor I had actually
. Years ago for high school art project my brother projected up paint
a picture that he took of the Mackinaw Bridge and he did it is a is
a black and white study and you know I thought a giant when I have I have I have
a hanger house of my model from my house as garage door fortunately and I thought
you know
a child. The picture of the back of the bridge would be cool but I just can't bring
myself to inflict that upon my neighbors. Because they might not think it was cool
and I want
a Golden Gate Well I think it would be that cream and green color that we have up
there yeah I think we are and it's beautiful but you can get like
a trump lawyer fact and have of that and would have been have like I don't cafe
thing in there something like that well you know you see the people who do the flag
you know because yeah because yeah you know I think Roger are likely inherently
wrong when they keep driving right into. The end they want to hear.
Us are there for years there was
a family and change out was there it was good and they had a giant letter G.
On their garage and you always knew where their house was there was no question
it's the letters are out there but like I say I just can't bring away you know
fortunately they all like the Little Free Library. So all right have we given you
know some food for thought that you have and I will. Take it to your hand man.
So I guess I'll move on this is since comments and he says and care to address
a planning commission. So he could be
a pest tonight I didn't know this topic was going to come up and as I'm listening
to you I'm thinking I live right next door to west born there's huge utility
cabinets right next to my house and they have that landscape where I don't even
notice it anymore but. I would like to have some say and not the trees were cut
down and something was painted on there. And the. So I can see limiting
it to business areas makes a lot of sense anything adjacent to
a residential area I'd be very leery about because taste is so different from one
person to the other and then the other thing is obscenity. I think part of
Charlie's Venus arising out of the ocean the sea is
a wonderful painting and if you put down on the thing I'd probably like it. But I
bet you
a lot of people in town that wouldn't and I don't know who in town is going to
decide you know condemned by the celli to being an obscenity
you know versus I don't know maybe we have
a fondness for Rubens women. And I don't know who's are qualified who's
a statically qualified in the city. I think we have some reasonably good sound
taste in the city but I don't know for our critics and I certainly don't know if we
want to play the role of art sense or so just my two cents Thank you all right
sorry thank you and have
a citizen scared or dressed planning session tonight. Ari and I move on to the
liaison report. That's me.
OK the meeting. Was August twelfth and it
was the shortest one on record. In what's called to order it eight
o four and a cure and
a twenty five. And in between. Steve
Baker thanked everyone who had volunteered to support. The cruise fast.
And he complimented. Me and your work for
with the project. And.
Chamber. There's
a pub crawl. Thursday. And there are several restaurants.
Participating and the next. Will be held Argus twenty eight
like Star bank. The carrot pass
was accepted by council and there will be.
The members get one free year subscription and hopefully this will work to
get more of our residents flocking I have noticed that there's more people walking
. Recently. And
then the Ribena twelve mile project. Talked about doing yet
another traffic study. And this would be about ten thousand dollars.
And it was suggested that the D.D.A.
In the city partner to cover that cost. And this is going to
show the impact of closing or not closing. Be enough
for the businesses there. And. As
a business owner. Coolidge I would be upset if they were closing
a street that was needed to get him to my shop. I can
understand temporarily closing that permanently.
I don't know I have to think about some more. Anyway. There's
one more candidate that there's another one vacancy on the board and there's two
people that. Jane is talking to.
And. I think that's just about it. It was quick.
I did the chamber meeting of the evening of August twelfth. They actually
did not have enough members to have
a quorum but they still discussed some events and and such so.
August twentieth is the the pub crawl and there will be. Nine establishment
participating the most they've ever had and so they've extended the time till
midnight usually runs to eleven P.M.
So starts at five thirty after me cheese twenty five dollars if you pre-purchase
thirty dollars at the door. And because of the size of it the last couple of years
this year they're going to for some of locations which are kind of tight on space
they're going to be. Splitting the group up and two different groups and like
moving them back and forth like. For example twenty four seconds and Patrick J's.
They'll split the group up to those two locations so and then you know. Half of the
time. For you to switch locations we'll see how that goes.
They're also gearing up for the off outing I think it's the eighteen. September
state of the city is scheduled for October sixteenth. And they have
a group that is interested and creating an Irish festival here in Berkeley
for the first weekend of or the first Saturday in October. Don't know if they'll
make it this year but they definitely want to do it next year. And then they did
that cash bash program as part of the bash. Distributed about.
Three thousand of the queue. And as of Wednesday one hundred twenty of them
have been redeemed so. The next meeting will be September ninth.
Now they report environmental did not meet us. All right. As I think everybody.
City council met last night. The library's been getting quite
a bit the money donated to
a man and several donations from Paulding curtain funeral home or to the
library. And then they are was the matter of accepting.
Donations from businesses and organizations and there was
a whole bunch of them that have donated to the reading program at the library and
the library is doing extremely well. In addition to that they city council approved
a. Resolution to. Allow the Detroit to try
public library to be in and Berkeley Public libraries so they can have joint. You
can take books out materials out of my ear library and and have
a giant thing there which is interesting in fact there's
a whole slew of why Barry our communities have
a hope age of them here communities that participate with the Berkeley library
system and you can go all over the place and get materials
I even see Wayne State University's libraries on them so that's interesting and
then they've approved this spray patch road repair that they've been doing. You've
seen in the fall and with the stone they're going to continue that project. What
have you. And there were several points to various committees and for community for
going to various. Organizations so that was the city of Berkeley's.
Council meaning in
a nut shell last night. So with that I guess we're running around the room here
but it's got anything else to say tonight
a server over here tonight has buckler. To show you know. Mr Morrow refers
very. Demure and I'm good. Off. The
Richardson of things and. Now I come down to Mr Martin Smith.
I will say they. Are News I'm good you're good good maybe you have some of the same
this fancy of. Our lives they thank you first with your schedules around
a million years. Yes we did switch the schedule around because Miss Phantom's going
to go on vacation around so we may get exception here tonight so with bad I guess
our. Mr Chairman the motion is made her second. Court
supported by Commissioner Murad all those in favor I. Think that your.